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Candace
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PostSubject: Re: Jeff and Jordan BB13   July 12th 2011, 10:01 pm

sockpuppet wrote:
boots wrote:
He just said "Now I look like a fuckin' bozo ALL over again!" and then mumbled something about slurs. He knows they/he has to go talk to Kalia because they need her vote.

Well, he told Jordan to go talk to her, because they need her vote.

Then he said, "whatever, I didn't even say anything."

I have a good friend telling me that Jeff meant it in a whole different way than I took it. She's a very liberal person who normally would be very upset about this, but I don't know if Jeff really could've meant it in different ways.

I don't know.

I've seen the opposite also on Twitter, people who hate him said it was stupid but they took the oposite. People jumped really fast...


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PostSubject: Re: Jeff and Jordan BB13   July 12th 2011, 10:02 pm

boots wrote:
Ignorance and inability to speak properly does not make someone evil or a bad person.


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PostSubject: Re: Jeff and Jordan BB13   July 12th 2011, 10:02 pm

I'm re-posting from the live feed disscusion:


don't see what's the big deal. yeah it's a wrong comment and he would have explaining to do.

But It's like I changed my mind over him. even if he would say to me that i'm dumb and an idiot, i wouldn't care. let him think what he wants. I know who is and I know he's a good guy and i'm sure he didn't meant that all gay people are pedofiles.



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PostSubject: Re: Jeff and Jordan BB13   July 12th 2011, 10:04 pm

Peaches wrote:


I'm disgusted and sick to my stomach over what he said, but we all know there are have been much worse things said in the BB house and they will never get the flack Jeff will over what just happened. Jeff is wrong in every way possible but he isn't the devil himself.

I wasn't trying to say he is, I don't think he's evil and I hope he will apologize and make it better. I know other people have said things but this particular thing strikes a chord with me. And it just happened 10 minutes ago.
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PostSubject: Re: Jeff and Jordan BB13   July 12th 2011, 10:10 pm

blondie55 wrote:
Personally, I'm shocked that so many of (who I considered to be) Jeff's biggest fans are the ones that are the most upset. In a way that makes perfect sense, but I am surprised.

I don't condone any of it, but I don't think Jeff's intent was as malicious as it first appeared. I listened to it three times, and the one thing that stood out to me is when he said "Think about what it is". I really want to give him the benefit of the doubt and say that he truly meant (but articulated very poorly) is that he didn't think that there should be prominent gay characters in children's novels.


I was just saying to Memphy that I think what is most upsetting for me is that it came from such a place of anger. I don't have to vote the same as my friends in the election, have the same political views, etc to be their friends. Everyone can have an opinion. I would think he was a numb nuts to believe that all gay people are perverted (which is not what he said) but the way it was said, the anger behind it, and the absolute disregard for the feelings of others was what was most damaging, in my viewpoint. However, the thing that is salvageable about ignorant people is that there is an opportunity for learning, as long as they allow it to happen.

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PostSubject: Re: Jeff and Jordan BB13   July 12th 2011, 10:13 pm

I watched it live and didn't take his comments to mean at all what most are thinking. I don't think that Jeff believes old gay men shouldn't be left alone with children....but that many do and there is a stigma out there so he thinks it's stupid to have an old wizard alone with children in a children's book be gay.
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PostSubject: Re: Jeff and Jordan BB13   July 12th 2011, 10:14 pm

boots wrote:
Ignorance and inability to speak properly does not make someone evil or a bad person.

Well said, boots.
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PostSubject: Re: Jeff and Jordan BB13   July 12th 2011, 10:16 pm

Even as he was saying it, he knew how it was going to be perceived and he become increasingly upset by just the thought. Kalia injecting her gay sister REALLY set him off because it confirmed to him what he feared, that he will be branded as homophobic and so he let loose on her.

It was wrong and kalia didn't deserve his anger but it I "got it".
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PostSubject: Re: Jeff and Jordan BB13   July 12th 2011, 10:16 pm

xubaby2000 wrote:
blondie55 wrote:
Personally, I'm shocked that so many of (who I considered to be) Jeff's biggest fans are the ones that are the most upset. In a way that makes perfect sense, but I am surprised.

I don't condone any of it, but I don't think Jeff's intent was as malicious as it first appeared. I listened to it three times, and the one thing that stood out to me is when he said "Think about what it is". I really want to give him the benefit of the doubt and say that he truly meant (but articulated very poorly) is that he didn't think that there should be prominent gay characters in children's novels.


I was just saying to Memphy that I think what is most upsetting for me is that it came from such a place of anger. I don't have to vote the same as my friends in the election, have the same political views, etc to be their friends. Everyone can have an opinion. I would think he was a numb nuts to believe that all gay people are perverted (which is not what he said) but the way it was said, the anger behind it, and the absolute disregard for the feelings of others was what was most damaging, in my viewpoint. However, the thing that is salvageable about ignorant people is that there is an opportunity for learning, as long as they allow it to happen.


I totally didn't get the anger level either. But after watching it a few times I'm thinking he was maybe really angry at him self for opening his mouth, and that was his way of quick damage control? It was definitely a bad, bad, situation/approach/cover up.

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PostSubject: Re: Jeff and Jordan BB13   July 12th 2011, 10:17 pm

Wendi wrote:
Even as he was saying it, he knew how it was going to be perceived and he become increasingly upset by just the thought. Kalia injecting her gay sister REALLY set him off because it confirmed to him what he feared, that he will be branded as homophobic and so he let loose on her.

It was wrong and kalia didn't deserve his anger but it I "got it".

You said it much better than I did. This is what I meant XUbaby.

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PostSubject: Re: Jeff and Jordan BB13   July 12th 2011, 10:18 pm

Wendi wrote:
Even as he was saying it, he knew how it was going to be perceived and he become increasingly upset by just the thought. Kalia injecting her gay sister REALLY set him off because it confirmed to him what he feared, that he will be branded as homophobic and so he let loose on her.

It was wrong and kalia didn't deserve his anger but it I "got it".

Yeah, he freaked out and he should definitely apologize....but i got what he was trying to say.
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PostSubject: Re: Jeff and Jordan BB13   July 12th 2011, 10:18 pm

Wow... who would have guessed it would be me and Wendy defending Jeff?

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PostSubject: Re: Jeff and Jordan BB13   July 12th 2011, 10:18 pm

xubaby2000 wrote:
blondie55 wrote:
Personally, I'm shocked that so many of (who I considered to be) Jeff's biggest fans are the ones that are the most upset. In a way that makes perfect sense, but I am surprised.

I don't condone any of it, but I don't think Jeff's intent was as malicious as it first appeared. I listened to it three times, and the one thing that stood out to me is when he said "Think about what it is". I really want to give him the benefit of the doubt and say that he truly meant (but articulated very poorly) is that he didn't think that there should be prominent gay characters in children's novels.


I was just saying to Memphy that I think what is most upsetting for me is that it came from such a place of anger. I don't have to vote the same as my friends in the election, have the same political views, etc to be their friends. Everyone can have an opinion. I would think he was a numb nuts to believe that all gay people are perverted (which is not what he said) but the way it was said, the anger behind it, and the absolute disregard for the feelings of others was what was most damaging, in my viewpoint. However, the thing that is salvageable about ignorant people is that there is an opportunity for learning, as long as they allow it to happen.

I can't always articulate what I want to say well and I could forgive him if he tried to explain himself right away but I haven't seen or heard about any remorse on his part yet. That concerns me. I didn't like his anger when he said it either. Maybe I just need time to process this. But, I'm not very happy right now.
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PostSubject: Re: Jeff and Jordan BB13   July 12th 2011, 10:19 pm

blondie55 wrote:
Wow... who would have guessed it would be me and Wendy defending Jeff?

Talk about irony!!!

I think it would help if he'd admit some wrong doing, talk about where he's coming from, etc. etc.

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PostSubject: Re: Jeff and Jordan BB13   July 12th 2011, 10:20 pm

Bottom line...Jeff has a bad temper, gets loud, loses it too easily. He handled it all wrong. BUT, does it make him a bad person? I don't think so. He knows good and well that he f'd up. He knew it mid convo in my opinion.
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PostSubject: Re: Jeff and Jordan BB13   July 12th 2011, 10:21 pm

blondie55 wrote:
Wow... who would have guessed it would be me and Wendy defending Jeff?

Hey there, I am fair and not just in complexion Smile

I have always recognized that Jeff has major flaws, his inability to properly express himself verbally being one of them, so this didn't surprise me.

I am disappointed he put himself in such a situation. His thoughtlessness is what I find inexcusable
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PostSubject: Re: Jeff and Jordan BB13   July 12th 2011, 10:21 pm

I think that the reaction of the other houseguest's (nobody bringing it up or even whispering about it) says a lot too. Maybe they didn't think it was that big of a deal because they took it to mean what some of us did, that his problem was that it was a children's book? (Grasping at straws here, and trying to make some of you feel a little better).

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PostSubject: Re: Jeff and Jordan BB13   July 12th 2011, 10:22 pm

blondie55 wrote:
Wendi wrote:
Even as he was saying it, he knew how it was going to be perceived and he become increasingly upset by just the thought. Kalia injecting her gay sister REALLY set him off because it confirmed to him what he feared, that he will be branded as homophobic and so he let loose on her.

It was wrong and kalia didn't deserve his anger but it I "got it".

You said it much better than I did. This is what I meant XUbaby.

It has surprised me the people who hate him got it the first time like Wendi explained it and the people who are fans jumped fast and furious some without even watching it.
People that don't care for him, think he was pissed because he thought Kalia was trying to paint him in a corner.

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PostSubject: Re: Jeff and Jordan BB13   July 12th 2011, 10:22 pm

balmoral wrote:
RealityRealmer wrote:
balmoral wrote:
RealityRealmer wrote:
the "I know my love" was beyond adorable
when was that? I am just adoring this little crumbs JJs are throwing at us.

It was last night on BBAD but I just watched it this afternoon. They were outside and I think Jeff asked her "love do you want a glass of wine" she said no and looked tired, he said she seemed tired and that she was about to get her little friend (period) and then said "I know my Love" in a way that meant- he knows her really well

anyone who is worried about their relationship I truly don't get it, they are in love and so comfortable, very healthy non-clingy relationship, who cares if they aren't ready for marriage
Thank you! I am missing all this, the feeds are driving me bananas,i can not concentrate. And I agree,JJ are solid gold!

Bally are you using BBLite?
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PostSubject: Re: Jeff and Jordan BB13   July 12th 2011, 10:23 pm

Candace wrote:
blondie55 wrote:
Wendi wrote:
Even as he was saying it, he knew how it was going to be perceived and he become increasingly upset by just the thought. Kalia injecting her gay sister REALLY set him off because it confirmed to him what he feared, that he will be branded as homophobic and so he let loose on her.

It was wrong and kalia didn't deserve his anger but it I "got it".

You said it much better than I did. This is what I meant XUbaby.

It has surprised me the people who hate him got it the first time like Wendi explained it and the people who are fans jumped fast and furious some without even watching it.
People that don't care for him, think he was pissed because he thought Kalia was trying to paint him in a corner.

It is really strange (or unexpected?) isn't it?

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PostSubject: Re: Jeff and Jordan BB13   July 12th 2011, 10:24 pm

Wendi wrote:
Even as he was saying it, he knew how it was going to be perceived and he become increasingly upset by just the thought. Kalia injecting her gay sister REALLY set him off because it confirmed to him what he feared, that he will be branded as homophobic and so he let loose on her.

It was wrong and kalia didn't deserve his anger but it I "got it".

I agree with the top part... but I'm more bothered with how he treated Kalia though. I can't get over that. He should have apologized right then and there for yelling at her the way he did. And still, not a word to her. The longer he goes without apologizing, the more of an asshole he seems to me.
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PostSubject: Re: Jeff and Jordan BB13   July 12th 2011, 10:25 pm

xubaby2000 wrote:
blondie55 wrote:
Wow... who would have guessed it would be me and Wendy defending Jeff?

Talk about irony!!!

I think it would help if he'd admit some wrong doing, talk about where he's coming from, etc. etc.

We just need to get Current in here now.

And it would definitely help if he owned up to his mistake and apologized. I hope it happens.

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PostSubject: Re: Jeff and Jordan BB13   July 12th 2011, 10:25 pm

I still haven't watched it. My head is spinning right now. On one hand I don't believe Jeff is homophobic and I know how he is never good at saying what he means, BUT I don't know if I can get past these comments. Do I take this one comment and discount the good things I've seen from him? I know in life we all say things we regret and one comment does not represent all of who we are as a person.....I don't know........

He thought last time was bad, this time is going to be a hundred times worse on him. You name it and he can kiss it goodbye. I just don't think he can come back this time.
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PostSubject: Re: Jeff and Jordan BB13   July 12th 2011, 10:25 pm

Yeah, i'm defending Jeff, who would've thought hahaha
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PostSubject: Re: Jeff and Jordan BB13   July 12th 2011, 10:26 pm

gmtbb wrote:
Wendi wrote:
Even as he was saying it, he knew how it was going to be perceived and he become increasingly upset by just the thought. Kalia injecting her gay sister REALLY set him off because it confirmed to him what he feared, that he will be branded as homophobic and so he let loose on her.

It was wrong and kalia didn't deserve his anger but it I "got it".

I agree with the top part... but I'm more bothered with how he treated Kalia though. I can't get over that. He should have apologized right then and there for yelling at her the way he did. And still, not a word to her. The longer he goes without apologizing, the more of an asshole he seems to me.

Jeff and Kalia have a different sort of dynamic. They constantly tease and berate each other. Maybe Jeff thinks that no apology is necessary? (Even though it totally is).

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PostSubject: Re: Jeff and Jordan BB13   July 12th 2011, 10:26 pm

blondie55 wrote:
Candace wrote:
blondie55 wrote:
Wendi wrote:
Even as he was saying it, he knew how it was going to be perceived and he become increasingly upset by just the thought. Kalia injecting her gay sister REALLY set him off because it confirmed to him what he feared, that he will be branded as homophobic and so he let loose on her.

It was wrong and kalia didn't deserve his anger but it I "got it".

You said it much better than I did. This is what I meant XUbaby.

It has surprised me the people who hate him got it the first time like Wendi explained it and the people who are fans jumped fast and furious some without even watching it.
People that don't care for him, think he was pissed because he thought Kalia was trying to paint him in a corner.

It is really strange (or unexpected?) isn't it?

Fans have higher expectations for people that they "fan" or else it makes us idiots for fanning them.
I never thought that he was perfect or could do no wrong. Never. And I was "there" when it happened, and my initial reaction was a gut check.
I may only speak for myself in this case, but I am more disappointed in me than I am in him.
Also, I don't think he is saying that gay people shouldn't be teachers or around children.

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PostSubject: Re: Jeff and Jordan BB13   July 12th 2011, 10:27 pm

blondie55 wrote:
Candace wrote:
blondie55 wrote:
Wendi wrote:
Even as he was saying it, he knew how it was going to be perceived and he become increasingly upset by just the thought. Kalia injecting her gay sister REALLY set him off because it confirmed to him what he feared, that he will be branded as homophobic and so he let loose on her.

It was wrong and kalia didn't deserve his anger but it I "got it".

You said it much better than I did. This is what I meant XUbaby.

It has surprised me the people who hate him got it the first time like Wendi explained it and the people who are fans jumped fast and furious some without even watching it.
People that don't care for him, think he was pissed because he thought Kalia was trying to paint him in a corner.

It is really strange (or unexpected?) isn't it?


Expect the unexpected.
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PostSubject: Re: Jeff and Jordan BB13   July 12th 2011, 10:28 pm

Stop calling a Jeff hater.

1. I don't think he the bestest looking man to every grace my TV nor the bestest whatever and

2. I prefer Jordan over him

but that doesn't mean I am not a fan of his
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PostSubject: Re: Jeff and Jordan BB13   July 12th 2011, 10:28 pm

I said I wasn't going to post on such a controversial issue, especially due to the fact that my moods are raging ten times more than everyone elses's (I have a baby in my house and a baby in my stomache). I will say that I personally try to not let myself try to "assume" what someone meant in a conversation. ALL of the above assumptions are incredibly reasonable and certainly well warranted, but in my psychology class our professor talked about how you can never truly get inside the mindset of someone exactly. Maybe Jeff does think gay men are pedophiles (VERY horrible and misinformed opinion!) or maybe he truly thinks subjects about homosexuality don't belong in a childrens book (not an entirely uncommon opinion, as a parent, I'm still undecided what age it's best to explain to my daughter what homosexuality is and it will be difficult since no one in our family is gay. I want to explain it to her in a way that she doesn't judge people and doesn't say harsh things). What jeff said, the way he said it, and more important they way he treated Kalia are the real issue with me. BUT he is still human, and I definately can't judge someone for having an "open mouth, insert foot" moment (although THIS was one hell of a moment). Also keep in mind he's not showing remorse on feeds yet because no one has really brought it up to him that he was way out of line. But honestly I can't get inside his head and figure out what he meant. All i can hope for is he explains himself. He is friends with Baub and i've never gotten the impression he was homophobic (the usage of gay slurs in BB11 is something I struggled with at first coming from a small conservative family in a small conservative town). I guess, I feel everyone definately has the right to feel pissed/hurt/whatever emotion they want. But I'm still team Jeff and Jordan, but a line was DEFINATELY crossed! ****Not to use this as an excuse, but if I said something wrong/worded it wrong I'm sorry!!!! I have really been bad about wording stuff lately so if what I wrote is confusing/hurtful call me out!

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PostSubject: Re: Jeff and Jordan BB13   July 12th 2011, 10:29 pm

Wendi wrote:
boots wrote:
Ignorance and inability to speak properly does not make someone evil or a bad person.

I am not piggy backing you, I swear I am not but I am with you on this.

high five

Wendi wrote:
Even as he was saying it, he knew how it was going to be perceived and he become increasingly upset by just the thought. Kalia injecting her gay sister REALLY set him off because it confirmed to him what he feared, that he will be branded as homophobic and so he let loose on her.

It was wrong and kalia didn't deserve his anger but it I "got it".

Well said.
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PostSubject: Re: Jeff and Jordan BB13   July 12th 2011, 10:33 pm

Peaches wrote:
I still haven't watched it. My head is spinning right now. On one hand I don't believe Jeff is homophobic and I know how he is never good at saying what he means, BUT I don't know if I can get past these comments. Do I take this one comment and discount the good things I've seen from him? I know in life we all say things we regret and one comment does not represent all of who we are as a person.....I don't know........

He thought last time was bad, this time is going to be a hundred times worse on him. You name it and he can kiss it goodbye. I just don't think he can come back this time.

I think I'm giving him some lee-way because I know that people aren't perfect, and that some times things come out wrong. I would say that instinct for a lot of people is to fight your way our of it, even when you know you said something really stupid.

I wont get in to too much detail because I know you guys don't care... but I did something similar the other day. My sister came in to town for a visit and I made an off hand comment about the war in Afghanistan and it not being necessary. That wasn't exactly what I meant and she was arguing with me and I argued right back even though I knew that what I intended to say and what came across were too different things. To put this in to context, my sister is home for a two week leave from her tour of duty in Afghanistan. And my dad was done two tours.

I guess because I'm human and have made mistakes, I can understand how these things could happen?

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PostSubject: Re: Jeff and Jordan BB13   July 12th 2011, 10:36 pm

Candace wrote:
blondie55 wrote:
Wendi wrote:
Even as he was saying it, he knew how it was going to be perceived and he become increasingly upset by just the thought. Kalia injecting her gay sister REALLY set him off because it confirmed to him what he feared, that he will be branded as homophobic and so he let loose on her.

It was wrong and kalia didn't deserve his anger but it I "got it".

You said it much better than I did. This is what I meant XUbaby.

It has surprised me the people who hate him got it the first time like Wendi explained it and the people who are fans jumped fast and furious some without even watching it.
People that don't care for him, think he was pissed because he thought Kalia was trying to paint him in a corner.

He did actually say when Brenden came in & brought it back up that he DID feel like he was being backed into a corner & that got him angrier.
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blondie55
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PostSubject: Re: Jeff and Jordan BB13   July 12th 2011, 10:36 pm

Wendi wrote:
Stop calling a Jeff hater.

1. I don't think he the bestest looking man to every grace my TV nor the bestest whatever and

2. I prefer Jordan over him

but that doesn't mean I am not a fan of his

I didn't mean to imply that, if it's my post your referring to.

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PostSubject: Re: Jeff and Jordan BB13   July 12th 2011, 10:36 pm

I honestly believe and 100% sure Jeff doesn't think gay people shouldn't be around children.

I'm sure he said it like there shouldn't be any sexuality in a children's book.
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Wendi
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PostSubject: Re: Jeff and Jordan BB13   July 12th 2011, 10:37 pm

blondie55 wrote:
Wendi wrote:
Stop calling a Jeff hater.

1. I don't think he the bestest looking man to every grace my TV nor the bestest whatever and

2. I prefer Jordan over him

but that doesn't mean I am not a fan of his

I didn't mean to imply that, if it's my post your referring to.

It wasn't Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Jeff and Jordan BB13   July 12th 2011, 10:38 pm

BB11JJ wrote:
I honestly believe and 100% sure Jeff doesn't think gay people shouldn't be around children.

I'm sure he said it like there shouldn't be any sexuality in a children's book.

Yeah I agree. I also agree with the sentiment of not including sexuality into a children's book. Just the way I feel.
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PostSubject: Re: Jeff and Jordan BB13   July 12th 2011, 10:38 pm

boots wrote:
I still like him.

I posted this in the LF discussion thread but I'm reposting it because it's relevant. It's not an excuse for what he said but I really think he just did a piss poor job of explaining himself.

I don't think Jeff really believes all old gay men are pedophiles, but doesn't think it is appropriate for a kids' book because of how the public would view it and ruin the franchise. Or that it's acceptable to present that lifestyle to children at such a young age and force parents to explain sexuality to their children, when it should really be about the magic and not about homosexuality.

This what I hope and think may have been the case. I am not making excuses for him. He got out of control and said things he should not have. But then so have I. I am not going to hate him for this. I have people in my life with very diverse opinions, for and against things. There is still much I like about Jeff but this is a black spot.
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PostSubject: Re: Jeff and Jordan BB13   July 12th 2011, 10:39 pm

I understand how they can happen. I am from an area not far from Chicago, and I understand how neighborhoods like Jeff's are, very small and close knit in a big city, Catholic, etc. I understand that a lot of Catholics confuse homosexuality and pedophilia (even people in my own family probably) and it is a common belief for a lot of people.
I understand how people with lack of anger control can escalate quickly and fly off the handle when they are wrong.

What I don't understand is why so angry and why then. It was an innocent, no importance conversation about nothing. It wasn't worth all the hoo-ha.

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PostSubject: Re: Jeff and Jordan BB13   July 12th 2011, 10:39 pm

I mostly just want Jeff to apologize to Kalia for yelling at her.

And I sincerely hope that they can have a talk so he can truly explain what he meant. Because (as has been said), we all know that Jeff doesn't always express himself succinctly when he's heated.

I don't think that Jeff is suddenly a true homophobic person. I think that's something that we would've known long before now. We've watched how many hours of him, living with gay people and such?

I just want to hear him explain himself better, and I want an apology for yelling at Kalia the way he did.

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PostSubject: Re: Jeff and Jordan BB13   July 12th 2011, 10:41 pm

blondie55 wrote:
Peaches wrote:
I still haven't watched it. My head is spinning right now. On one hand I don't believe Jeff is homophobic and I know how he is never good at saying what he means, BUT I don't know if I can get past these comments. Do I take this one comment and discount the good things I've seen from him? I know in life we all say things we regret and one comment does not represent all of who we are as a person.....I don't know........

He thought last time was bad, this time is going to be a hundred times worse on him. You name it and he can kiss it goodbye. I just don't think he can come back this time.

I think I'm giving him some lee-way because I know that people aren't perfect, and that some times things come out wrong. I would say that instinct for a lot of people is to fight your way our of it, even when you know you said something really stupid.

I wont get in to too much detail because I know you guys don't care... but I did something similar the other day. My sister came in to town for a visit and I made an off hand comment about the war in Afghanistan and it not being necessary. That wasn't exactly what I meant and she was arguing with me and I argued right back even though I knew that what I intended to say and what came across were too different things. To put this in to context, my sister is home for a two week leave from her tour of duty in Afghanistan. And my dad was done two tours.

I guess because I'm human and have made mistakes, I can understand how these things could happen?

Thanks for sharing. I definitely see your point.
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